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Post by needhelp on Dec 26, 2011 4:21:44 GMT -5
I'll try and keep this short and give the facts, I live in VA. A woman I met over 7 years ago lived with a boyfriend and dated me for a short time. she told me she was pregnant 1 month after we dated, then left me to go back to her boyfriend which she claims was the father. Now after 7 years I find out she is living in TN and getting support from that state. Now TN has served me for support back to 2004, I come to find out the boyfriend is listed as the father on the birth cert. I also find out he died a couple years (2009)age (38) and he had gone to court, had DNA and was proven not his child. So looks like I am getting tested after 7 years. What options do I have, I hired an attorney though I don't hear anything good coming from him. I am married now(3 years) and 55. Thanks in advance
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Post by Harrison on Dec 26, 2011 22:08:07 GMT -5
Wow!! That is a hole lot of info. in a very concise manner, well done. TN has a punitive father registry, this is a very discriminatory way of putting a man on the hook, due process and rights be damn. You can change it, with a trip to the US supreme court to prove unconstitutionality and discrimination, but the bottom line is ..... That child has a legal father. Your DNA is of no legal value. If you would like we can look into TN state statue that could support this possition. The attorney, is your employee. DO NOT expect it to think!!!! If you are aware of your rights and the law, you will have some control of your sistuation.
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Post by Harrison on Dec 27, 2011 13:36:27 GMT -5
(28) �Legal parent� means:
(A) The biological mother of a child;
(B) A man who is or has been married to the biological mother of the child if the child was born during the marriage or within three hundred (300) days after the marriage was terminated for any reason, or if the child was born after a decree of separation was entered by a court;
(C) A man who attempted to marry the biological mother of the child before the child's birth by a marriage apparently in compliance with the law, even if the marriage is declared invalid, if the child was born during the attempted marriage or within three hundred (300) days after the termination of the attempted marriage for any reason;
(D) A man who has been adjudicated to be the legal father of the child by any court or administrative body of this state or any other state or territory or foreign country or who has signed, pursuant to §§ 24-7-113, 68-3-203(g), 68-3-302 or 68-3-305(b), an unrevoked and sworn acknowledgment of paternity under the provisions of Tennessee law, or who has signed such a sworn acknowledgment pursuant to the law of any other state, territory, or foreign country;
(E) An adoptive parent of a child or adult; or
(F) A man shall not be a legal parent of a child based solely on blood, genetic, or DNA testing determining that he is the biological parent of the child without either a court order or voluntary acknowledgement of paternity pursuant to § 24-7-113. Such test may provide a basis for an order establishing paternity by a court of competent jurisdiction, pursuant to the requirements of § 24-7-112;
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Post by Harrison on Dec 27, 2011 13:42:11 GMT -5
TENNESSEE CODE ANNOTATED Title 24 Evidence And Witnesses Chapter 7 Admissibility of Evidence 24-7-113. Voluntary acknowledgment of paternity. (a) A voluntary acknowledgment of paternity which is completed under the provisions of § 68-3-203(g), § 68-3-302, or § 68-3-305(b) or under similar provisions of another state or government shall constitute a legal finding of paternity on the individual named as the father of the child in the acknowledgment, subject to rescission as provided in subsection (c). The acknowledgment, unless rescinded pursuant to subsection (c), shall be conclusive of that father's paternity without further order of the court.
(b) (1) A voluntary acknowledgment of paternity which is completed under the provisions of § 68-3-203(g), § 68-3-302, or § 68-3-305(b), or under similar provisions of another state or government, when certified by the state registrar or other governmental entity maintaining the record of the acknowledgment, or the copy of the voluntary acknowledgment completed pursuant to § 68-3-302(d), shall be a basis for establishing a support order without requiring any further proceedings to establish paternity.
(2) An acknowledgment of paternity executed as described in subdivision (b)(1) shall be entitled to full faith and credit in any judicial or administrative proceeding in this state.
(3) No judicial or administrative proceedings are required, nor shall any such proceedings be permitted, to ratify an unchallenged acknowledgment of paternity in order to create the conclusive status of the acknowledgment of paternity.
(c) A signatory to a voluntary acknowledgment shall be permitted to rescind the voluntary acknowledgment at the earlier of:
(1) The completion and submission of a sworn statement refuting the named father on a form provided by the state registrar. This form must be filed in the office of vital records of the department of health, together with the fee required by the registrar within sixty (60) days of the date of completion of the acknowledgment; or
(2) Within the sixty-day period following completion of the acknowledgment, at any judicial or administrative proceeding during that period at which the signatory is a party and which proceeding relates to the child, by completion of the form described in subdivision (c)(1) or by the entry of an order by the administrative or judicial tribunal which directs the rescission of such acknowledgment.
The registrar may impose a fee for the filing of the rescission of voluntary acknowledgment in subdivision (c)(1) and the registrar shall send a copy of the rescinded acknowledgment to the other signatory of the original acknowledgment. If an individual seeking to rescind an acknowledgment completes an affidavit of indigency which accompanies the rescission form, the fee shall be waived. Any fee for filing a rescission of a voluntary acknowledgment based upon fraud shall be assessed by the court against the person found to be the perpetrator of the fraud.
(d) If, at any time during the hearing described in subdivision (c)(2), the court, the referee, or the hearing officer has reasonable cause to believe that a signatory of the acknowledgment is or was unable to understand the effects of executing such acknowledgment, the court, the referee or hearing officer shall explain orally to the individual the effects of the execution of the acknowledgment, and the right to rescind the voluntary acknowledgment pursuant to subsection (c), and the right to parentage tests to determine paternity pursuant to the provisions of § 24-7-112 in any proceeding relative to the issue of paternity of the child.
(e) (1) If the voluntary acknowledgment has not been rescinded pursuant to subsection (c), the acknowledgment may only be challenged on the basis of fraud, whether extrinsic or intrinsic, duress, or material mistake of fact.
(2) The challenger must institute the proceeding upon notice to the other signatory and other necessary parties including the Title IV-D agency within five (5) years of the execution of the acknowledgment, and if the court finds based upon the evidence presented at the hearing that there is substantial likelihood that fraud, duress, or a material mistake of fact existed in the execution of the acknowledgment of paternity, then, and only then, the court shall order parentage tests. Such action shall not be barred by the five-year statute of limitations where fraud in the procurement of the acknowledgment by the mother of the child is alleged and where the requested relief will not affect the interests of the child, the state, or any Title IV-D agency. Nothing herein shall preclude the challenger from presenting any other form of evidence as a substitute for the parentage tests if it is not possible to conduct such tests.
(3) The test results certified under oath by an authorized representative of an accredited laboratory shall be filed with the court and shall be admissible on the issue of paternity pursuant to § 24-7-112(b). If the acknowledged father is found to be excluded by the tests, an action seeking support shall be dismissed or the acknowledgment of paternity shall be rescinded, as appropriate. If the test results show a statistical probability of ninety-five percent (95%) or greater, a rebuttable presumption of paternity shall be established and the issue of paternity shall be tried before the court without a jury. If the test results show a probability of paternity of ninety-nine percent (99%) or greater, the acknowledgment of paternity will become conclusive and no further action shall be necessary to establish paternity unless a motion asserting the defenses of § 24-7-112(b)(2)(C) is successfully brought.
(4) The burden of proof in any such proceeding shall be upon the challenger.
(5) During the pendency of the hearing under this subsection and any appeal from such hearing, the legal responsibilities of the signatory, including any child support obligations, may not be suspended, except for good cause shown.
(f) The state of Tennessee, its officers, employees, agents or contractors, or any Title IV-D child support enforcement agency shall not be liable in any case to compensate any person for repayment of child support paid or for any other costs as a result of the rescission of any voluntary acknowledgment or the rescission of any orders of legitimation, paternity, or support entered under this section.
(g) (1) The rescission of an acknowledgment of paternity or entry of any order rescinding any acknowledgment of paternity pursuant to subsection (c) shall not preclude the initiation of a paternity action against the signatory who is the alleged putative father, or by a putative father against a mother to establish his paternity, nor shall it preclude the initiation of a paternity action against another putative father.
(2) If, however, the voluntary acknowledgment is rescinded by order of the court based upon tests conducted pursuant to subsection (e) which excluded a person as parent, no further action may be initiated against such excluded person.
(h) (1) The original of the form rescinding the voluntary acknowledgment of paternity or a certified copy of any order rescinding a voluntary acknowledgment of paternity or a prior order of legitimation or paternity shall be sent by the person rescinding it or, as the case may be, by the clerk to the state registrar at the office of vital records of the department of health.
(2) Upon receipt of the form rescinding the acknowledgment which was executed and filed with the registrar within the sixty-day period or upon receipt of the order which shows on its face that the voluntary acknowledgment has been rescinded at the hearing which is held no later than the sixtieth day following the completion of the voluntary acknowledgment, or upon receipt of a certified court order with a finding shown clearly in the court order that the voluntary acknowledgment of paternity was rescinded due to fraud, either intrinsic or extrinsic, duress or material mistake of fact, the registrar shall make the appropriate amendments to the birth certificate of the child who was the subject of the order.
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Post by Harrison on Dec 27, 2011 15:27:26 GMT -5
Here's what I see..... In TN once you volunteer to be a parent, such as the dead man did. He had 60 days after to change his mind, but he didn't. My guess is he is still listed as the father and if so paternity has already been established and I would NOT submit to genetic testing. Make TN get a court order! They will have to set a hearing and the reason for a motion to order genetic testing will be to establish paternity. But that having already been done the court will not have grounds or jurisdiction. This is a case of TN own trap biting them in the ass. But make no mistake they will break every law they need to to get their hands in your bank account and most attorneys will watch the state do it. Your attorney should be able to get a copy of the kids birth certificate or some kind of record that shows the other man as the father. In TN paternity can be establish before birth to 3yrs after legal adulthood and child support can be charged retroactively to include prenatal care, but 60 days after paternity is established related or not that's the legal father. (F) A man shall not be a legal parent of a child based solely on blood, genetic, or DNA testing determining that he is the biological parent of the child without either a court order or voluntary acknowledgement of paternity pursuant to § 24-7-113. Such test may provide a basis for an order establishing paternity by a court of competent jurisdiction, pursuant to the requirements of § 24-7-112;
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Post by Jim on Dec 27, 2011 19:29:42 GMT -5
Good work Harrison, I also would advise this guy to ignore CSE and wait for the court to "invoke" this procedure. Has he even seen proof that this other guy was proven through DNA that he wasn't the father? ? What'd they do, dig him up and dna test him when this woman needed to find another father to be that is alive and has some money? or is this DNA claim just a bunch of bluffing BS? I'd want to see the DNA test that proves the dead guy isn't the father, sounds really suspicious to me. Could it be that this woman is grasping for straws in hopes "needhelp" just starts sending money to her? Something doesn't sound right to me and she may be bluffing. But anything is possible. I'd fight this all the way unless "needhelp" truly believes he is the father and wants to prove he is and be a part of the childs life here on out....and pay child support and deal with visitation problems and procedures. Big decisions need to be made, and they need to be made fast! I'd advise "needhelp" to research research and BABYSIT your attorney very closely on this one! DO NOT TRUST your attorney and agree with him/her just because their sweet talking you. Double check everything in state code and statute before agreeing to do anything the attorney advises you to do. As Harrison said, CSE will break every law they can to nab your bank accounts and or paychecks...beware and be wise...
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Post by needhelp on Dec 27, 2011 20:32:48 GMT -5
I wanted to be short in my first post, however I left out the mother and child and boyfriend all lived in VA,
The Child was born in VA. The birth record was VA. It appears he supported the child as his own for years, she moved to TN in 2010. I want to thank you for looking up this info. I am at a loss.
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Post by needhelp on Dec 28, 2011 3:27:08 GMT -5
First Let me say Thank you! for responding this fast, I'd like to ask if voluntary paternity acknowledgment stands up in VA? Even if years past and a test shows you were not the father.
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Post by Harrison on Dec 28, 2011 11:29:43 GMT -5
Her residence isn't an issue, most states have a short time to assume residency. OH hell yeah there's not a state that won't trap the ignorant!!!! But states with the PFR (VA, TN...) have unconstitutional laws that make men who are not the father a parent. So VA is no better than TN. That is why you make the state get a court order for your DNA, that puts the burden of proof on TN. Then even if there's no name on the birth certificate (I'll bet he is) you can use school records, past welfare, last name...... to show this kid already has a father. Just cause he's dead doesn't give TN just cause to go fishin' for another man to saddle with mind staggering debt. My next step would be to get a copy of that birth certificate ASAP. For it to be proof it must come from the state and it may need to be subpoenaed. Your attorney should have no trouble with this.........it should be done. The way TN is looking at this is, even if Bob (the dead man) wanted to object to being removed as father because he has no bio link, he can't. He also can't be tapped for CS, so if CSE can get another man that lets them skirt the court system.......POOOF!!! We have a new daddy!!! This daddy is the perfect dad, because of PFR he has absolutely no rights at all, no visitation, any contact at all may be grounds for a restraining order (RO). Yet 50% or more of his check is allocated in the name of the child. What's mom up to all this time? Let's see you heard nothing until after Bob's death and it was quite awhile after that........Hmmmmmm. I would have to figure that time span to be...oh about as long as it takes to get SSI turned around and making regular payments. Then a quick hop to TN and a trip to the welfare office were they don't have direct access to the VA records and these people are not about to dispute a woman that is going bring the state 2 dollars for every dollar they can steal from you for her. Just fill out the paper work and let someone else deal with the fall out. Another place you may find what you need, the ex may be collecting SSI from Bob's death in the kids name, if so the federal government recognizes Bob as the father and that should shut TN down. One more thing, they may use the mother. ANY contact with her can NOT be good for you in far too many ways to list. As to your mail, your right and that's what you need to prove, that this kid had a legal father. You want to get your evidence together and shoot this down in court ASAP. We have heard of men trying to deal with CSE that are wrongfully collecting and it is 99% certainty that to get them stopped is at least one trip before a judge, if your lucky. CSE wants you to deal with them so they can feed you false and misleading info. that has you so busy you don't realize that the clock is ticking.
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Post by needhelp on Dec 28, 2011 19:55:56 GMT -5
First Excellent info! Here's more info, I have a copy of the birth cert. The person listed as the father (let's call him Bob Jones) is listed and signed as Bob Jones on the cert, the child's name is Bob Jones Jr. The mother is using a madien name. Also the last time I saw or spoke to the woman was in 2004. 5 years later Bob Jones sr dies, (09) I was available to be contacted while the mother was in VA and never heard nothing, I would think also Bob Sr claimed Bob Jr on taxes.
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Post by Harrison on Dec 28, 2011 22:33:48 GMT -5
Well thank you Bobby!!!!! You may want to look for a new attorney. TN has no case, paternity has been established, end of story.
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Post by needhelp on Dec 29, 2011 2:39:06 GMT -5
Harrison, I would hope that they have no case, The birth cert is from VA, all 3 of them lived in VA for years with child(04), it was not long after 09 he died and she filed papers Nov 10' in TN at the CSE office. the CSE in TN got the CSE in VA to summons me to the CSE in VA and fill out the papers they mailed me and bring my statements, etc, After the shock settled I refused to sign anything, or show up, instead I sent a cert letter to them explaining what I have already said here. They turned it over to the Juv Court, months later I went to court with my lawyer and asked TN for DNA proof. That said know any good lawyers near Norfolk, Virginia beach area..
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Post by needhelp on Dec 29, 2011 2:45:27 GMT -5
If there is some path I need to go down with my lawyer to show TN has no case by all means let me know, I do not know any good lawyers(no pun intended)
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Post by Harrison on Dec 29, 2011 11:41:38 GMT -5
Was there an order of any kind issued by the "judge" ? Was the birth cert. filed as evidence? ? Or offered in court? When was the last time you were contacted by anyone on the matter? Is there another hearing on the docket??! Did the ex and Bob get a divorce or split up, as to having the matter before a court already?? Could CSE have gotten a big nose full of fraud and dropped the matter (not likely) and no one informed you??? Something isn't washing clean hear. At the first hearing a judge will often give a temporary order of support, using best interest of the child. (it's their spray on fix-all and ass plate) If CSE had a temp. order they'd start collecting and by now, with the massive arrears CSE wanted to pin on you, your drivers lic., bank account and at least 1/2 your income should be gone!!! At least time is not an issue, due to paternity having been established. The only legal yellow brick road there is: 60 days after Bob Sr. acknowledged paternity he became Bob Jr,s legal father for all time. I have a feeling he may have found that out. And that would be another good resource for evidence to strengthen your case. So the potential evidence so far; 1) birth cert. X 2) possible SSI federal recognition of paternity 3) prior court order This wanna be court does not have the authority to over turn a higher courts order and it will be a higher court because in most states an order made by an appointed judge becomes a superior court order after a set time. (+/- 2 wks) 4) school records I would start with prior court orders, this court may have already made a ruling on the removal of bob as father. Something else that is a plus, is that your in juvenile or family court and if you don't like the ruling, an appeal to Superior court is not to hard or uncommon.
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Post by Harrison on Dec 29, 2011 11:46:12 GMT -5
Did the "judge order a dna test?
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