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Post by MeeMaw on Dec 3, 2012 15:07:59 GMT -5
My granddaughter is almost 4. Her parents were never married. The father was court ordered to pay child support and does faithfully. The mother has sole custody and receives the child support. But....the child lives with me and the mother does not pay one red cent of that child support to us or buy anything for the child. In fact, she sees the child less than 10 hours per week. I have told her that I felt that the child support should be coming to us, she stated that she had bills to pay. What can we do without risking her removing the child from us? We love our granddaughter deeply and buy everything she needs, but there is nothing left for extras like Christmas, our own clothing or other needs. We are the parents of the "mother" of the child - fyi.
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Post by Harrison on Dec 4, 2012 8:54:06 GMT -5
Hi MeeMaw, you do have options! and possible liabilities. Let me ask some questions to help me help you. First. what state are you in and is there any other state involved? 2) If there is an order for support then there should be a parenting plan. Does the father have court ordered visitation? Does he get them? 3) How long has this been going on?
Document everything!!!!! If your not already keep a log of the day to day. Let mom think all is great for now, you don't want to move before we know were you're stepping in this mine field.
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Post by MeeMaw on Dec 4, 2012 13:48:29 GMT -5
There is a court order for child support and father's visitation. The father does get his visitation (when he uses it) and I have offered to let him come by whenever he'd like, although he hasn't done that. I'm in Illinois. Both parents at this time have medical insurance for the child so he is covered medically. I don't do anything at all to prevent the parents from seeing their child and even go out of my way to inform them when something new has been learned, etc. I send an extra set of clothes when there will be an overnight visit (father). But it's really hard to provide for the child's needs and our own financially and listen to the mother talk about having to wait one day to get her child support because she needs to buy gifts for friends, etc. I agree about letting them all think that everything is fine for the time being and documenting everything. I can't risk losing this child....afraid that it would kill us.
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Post by Harrison on Dec 5, 2012 1:02:45 GMT -5
Is the child in an educational program of some kind such as head start etc.? How long this has been happening is an issue.? It seems you're on good terms with the father, is he aware of the circumstance and how does he feel about it?
I'm asking these questions because this is how I see things so far. You're in a Mexican stand off, and due to Grandville v. Troxel the U.S. supreme court ruled that if a parent(s) wish to cut someone, even grandparents from the life of their child, the parents have that right. This however applies only to fit parents!!!! Did the mom use DV (domestic violence) or abuse charges to gain custody?
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Post by meemaw on Dec 5, 2012 11:05:26 GMT -5
First, I really appreciate that you are discussing this with me to help me figure out what to do.
Illinois Legislature passed a Grandparents visitation statute, which we used to obtain legal, court ordered visitation. This means...that because we met certain criteria....i.e. maternal grandparents, child lived with us, etc. we were able to hire a lawyer and go to court and get: 1 day per week visitation and time on holidays with our grandchild. We did this because while our daughter got in a snit, she removed our grandchild from our home and we had no contact for over a month. Our grandchild has lived with us since birth, other than an occasional night away with either her father or mother.
Our granddaughter does not attend head start or daycare. She will start kindergarten in a year. In the meantime, we attend events for children at our local library and have play dates with other children. She is bright, not behind on any skills and fully assimilated into our home and family.
Our daughter did not use DV to obtain custody. Once again, in Illinois, with unmarried parents, the mother is presumed to have custody and the father did not dispute that. I am on decent terms with the father and he also resents that his child support is going to the mother and that none is being used on his child.
Under normal circumstances, I understand that child support assists in covering costs of rent, utilities, food, clothing, etc. and the custodial parent does not have to itemize or explain where the money goes. However, as far as I'm aware, our daughter pays rent nowhere, has no utility bills and works full time. So, she receives her paycheck and child support and uses it for her own selfish wants.
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Post by Jim on Dec 5, 2012 15:08:10 GMT -5
First, I really appreciate that you are discussing this with me to help me figure out what to do. Illinois Legislature passed a Grandparents visitation statute, which we used to obtain legal, court ordered visitation. This means...that because we met certain criteria....i.e. maternal grandparents, child lived with us, etc. we were able to hire a lawyer and go to court and get: 1 day per week visitation and time on holidays with our grandchild. We did this because while our daughter got in a snit, she removed our grandchild from our home and we had no contact for over a month. Our grandchild has lived with us since birth, other than an occasional night away with either her father or mother. Our granddaughter does not attend head start or daycare. She will start kindergarten in a year. In the meantime, we attend events for children at our local library and have play dates with other children. She is bright, not behind on any skills and fully assimilated into our home and family. Our daughter did not use DV to obtain custody. Once again, in Illinois, with unmarried parents, the mother is presumed to have custody and the father did not dispute that. I am on decent terms with the father and he also resents that his child support is going to the mother and that none is being used on his child. Under normal circumstances, I understand that child support assists in covering costs of rent, utilities, food, clothing, etc. and the custodial parent does not have to itemize or explain where the money goes. However, as far as I'm aware, our daughter pays rent nowhere, has no utility bills and works full time. So, she receives her paycheck and child support and uses it for her own selfish wants. I'm not savy with Illinois law/code, but your daughter could actually be in contempt of court with the custody order/parenting plan, guilty of child neglect and abandonment, etc. If the mother just came back and ripped this child away from your home and away from the bonding that has occurred with you that she has, and broke such a childs normal routine that has been established, that is definately not in the childs best interests and I am sure a judge would likely agree with that. As it stands now though the mother does have all rights, you may consider motioning the court for full custody based on what I mentioned above and also due to the fact that the child is obviously permanently living with you and has been and you are a blood relative'grandparent. Once the child is in school it would even be easier for you to gain custody legally......you may have to get ugly in court with the mother and mean business with the judge bigtime and do not waiver..... The judge will most likely be most concerned about the history and best interest of the child, the dads testimony, the routine established with the child already......and why the mother "abandoned" and neglected this child. Research state codes concerning custody, grandparents laws, etc etc. Seriously look into motioning the court first for an emergency hearing for temporary custody to get a court order to prevent this child from being ripped away from you by the mother when she finds out what your up too. You may have to claim abandonment against the mother to do this. The judge at this emergency hearing may schedule a hearing for custody at that time and order the clerk to file supeona the mother. I'm just mentioning a few things as I don't personally know your situation etc and am not an attorney,,,,,,I'm just tossing some ideas out there. PS: Do you actually have legal visitation rights (a court order) for one day a week right now with the child in reference (4year old grand-daughter) ?
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Post by meemaw on Dec 5, 2012 15:54:20 GMT -5
Yes. I actually have court ordered, legal visitation with this grandchild for one day per week. When our daughter took the child away I was distraught and started googling for what rights we had. Luckily, the Illinois Legislature had passed a Grandparent's Visitation statute and we met the criteria. In fact, we met it so clearly that it looked like it had been written for us. In case any other grandparents in Illinois are seeing this: The child must have lived with you for more than 6 months, you must be a MATERNAL grandparent and you must have been the child's primary caregiver. Those were the highlights.
Once we took her to court and gained the Court Order, the child was returned to us and the daughter continued on with her normal selfish ways. Abandonment would not fit since she does call every other day or so, and drops by for a few hours a week.
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Post by Jim on Dec 5, 2012 16:12:42 GMT -5
Yes. I actually have court ordered, legal visitation with this grandchild for one day per week. When our daughter took the child away I was distraught and started googling for what rights we had. Luckily, the Illinois Legislature had passed a Grandparent's Visitation statute and we met the criteria. In fact, we met it so clearly that it looked like it had been written for us. In case any other grandparents in Illinois are seeing this: The child must have lived with you for more than 6 months, you must be a MATERNAL grandparent and you must have been the child's primary caregiver. Those were the highlights. Once we took her to court and gained the Court Order, the child was returned to us and the daughter continued on with her normal selfish ways. Abandonment would not fit since she does call every other day or so, and drops by for a few hours a week. Considering that you have this court order and that you have already established with the court a bond (legally) AND RIGHTS to this child, and a legal record of your concern about the child's best interests and your complaints against the mothers behavior....AND also that the child lives with you, I don't think it would be much like pulling teeth to get full custody. I do feel an emergency hearing for temporary custody would be necessary though first and at that hearing explain to the judge what is going on and be prepared to file a formal complaint for custody at that hearing....(need to check into the procedure rules for your state pertaining to this). Just tell the judge at the emergency hearing that you need this emergency custody order to prevent the mother from taking the child from you and the little ones permanent home and breaking her "normal" routine which would be emotionally damaging, stressful, cause the child duress, etc etc and also would not be in the child's best interest. Consulting with an attorney about this process I would highly recommend. If and when the judge ordered you full custody he/she would automatically also write an order for the father to pay you the child support instead of the mother....surely that would be proper procedure for a judge to do in a situation like this. I'd be also prepared for a major fight with your daughter as it sounds like she is more concerned about the money (Child Support) than her little girl.....sad, but typical in many of these types of situations. Added: It sounds as if you have already established custody, all that stands in your way is a piece of paper with a Judge's signature on it.....
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Post by Harrison on Dec 5, 2012 16:39:34 GMT -5
That's RIGHT were I was headed!!!! 4 yrs!!!!! Ok, she has had more than time to get with the parent gig!!! I was in much the same situation but it was my own kids. Anyway this is how I went about it....... You won't have to file a new case, if you don't have the case No. I'm sure dad will be MORE than happy to help. While you have his attention, he should be amicable to writing a declaration in support. Have your proposed parenting plan ready to show him that it gives his time. (you may want to sweeten the pot and offer him a little extra). Here's were it gets NASTY. A temp. restraining order should be filed with the motions. You will have to talk to a judge so this may take some time and should be done before you file your motion and parenting plan. The claim for the RO is that mom is a flight risk that would endanger the child's well being. Then take the RO, motion and PP to the county clerks office and file them. There should be 5 copies of everything. One for the clerk, one for mom, one for dad, your copy and a bench copy or extra, some time they ask for it some times not. It's saved my ass more than once to have an extra copy or two. Do you need help finding the forms or state statue?
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Post by Jim on Dec 5, 2012 16:47:52 GMT -5
That's RIGHT were I was headed!!!! 4 yrs!!!!! Ok, she has had more than time to get with the parent gig!!! I was in much the same situation but it was my own kids. Anyway this is how I went about it....... You won't have to file a new case, if you don't have the case No. I'm sure dad will be MORE than happy to help. While you have his attention, he should be amicable to writing a declaration in support. Have your proposed parenting plan ready to show him that it gives his time. (you may want to sweeten the pot and offer him a little extra). Here's were it gets NASTY. A temp. restraining order should be filed with the motions. You will have to talk to a judge so this may take some time and should be done before you file your motion and parenting plan. The claim for the RO is that mom is a flight risk that would endanger the child's well being. Then take the RO, motion and PP to the county clerks office and file them. There should be 5 copies of everything. One for the clerk, one for mom, one for dad, your copy and a bench copy or extra, some time they ask for it some times not. It's saved my ass more than once to have an extra copy or two. Do you need help finding the forms or state statue? Harrison, couldn't a restraining order be avoided if she went and got an emergency order of custody first like I mentioned above? If the daughter then tried to take the child away from the grandmother, the grandmother would have an order of custody with a custody trial'hearing pending and could legally refuse to give the child to the mother.....if things got nasty with the mother, the grandmother could call the police and get them to enforce the temp order period. Just tossing that out there, it'll probably get nasty either way. Surely need to get all the ducks in a row with Illinois code and procedure to know what the proper way to go about this would be .....
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Post by Harrison on Dec 5, 2012 16:48:17 GMT -5
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Post by Jim on Dec 5, 2012 16:52:53 GMT -5
Not sure where your going with that or what your pertaining too....ya lost me with that one
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Post by Harrison on Dec 5, 2012 17:25:47 GMT -5
The admissibility of state law in court. It's a link to the IL family law. I've look and haven't been able to find court forms and I'm out of time for now, got cheese in the smoker......later!!
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Post by Jim on Dec 5, 2012 18:17:59 GMT -5
Petition for Custody Absent an agreement from the parent or parents of a child, a grandparent must file a petition for child custody. The petition is filed in the court in the county where the child currently resides. The clerk of the court likely maintains a petition for child custody utilized for this purpose. There are attorneys who specialize in child custody issues available to assist you as well.
Legal Standing Pursuing child custody for grandparents in Illinois involves a concept known as "legal standing." Standing is the legal ability of a grandparent to seek child custody in the first instance. Not every grandparent in all situations possesses legal standing to pursue child custody. Legal standing exists for a grandparent to seek child custody if neither parent maintains physical custody, if the parent serving as the primary caretaker dies or if there is a substantiated allegation of abuse of neglect of the child.
Best Interests of the Child In considering a grandparent's petition for child custody, Illinois law requires a determination by the court of what is in the best interests of the child. A consideration of the best interests of the child involves determining whether placement of a minor in the custody of a grandparent enhances the health, welfare and safety of that child.
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Post by Harrison on Dec 6, 2012 9:10:42 GMT -5
I would try to get a emergency custody order and the RO at the same time. It would make sense both can be done ex parte (with out notice to other party). Then if mom pulled anything, it's a straight forward issue for the cops and it shows the court you're not messing around. I should have time today for some law surfin'. I'll see if I can hang 10 on those gnarly waves of abandonment and neglect.
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